CPACE Meeting Minutes Date: December 19, Time: 2:30 p.m. - 4:30 p.m. Location: MichiganState University,East LansingMI Next meeting: TBA Time: TBA Participants listed by group:
General Agenda: (attachment 1) Review minutes from Dec 5, 2007 meeting. There were no changes to the minutes. Note: Due to technical difficulties the first fifty minutes of the recording were lost. 2. Review additional data/information from Gary and Tammy and push further on the data collection/sampling strategy. Tammy presented the revised data on Engineering and Related Occupations (attachment 2). Lisa: Are we going to separate the technicians from actual eng disciplines and what are we doing with the information technology component? Tammy: We are removing the information technology occupations from the list (computer software eng). Lisa: Why? Tammy: We could generate a list that works for those computer software eng occupations. There would be three separate lists, computer software eng, technicians and engineers. Lisa: Are they different enough that we want to look at them separately? Mark: For the purposes of impacting curriculum across the three majors outside computer science; if we get a lot of data about what we expect from science majors that would skew our data. Tammy: The only technicians that were included in the occupation list are civil, electrical and electronic eng but we will separate those for the interviewing purposes. Cindee: How are we using these data to help inform the areas that we are going to target? Garystarted to talk about how to get down to company level. Mark: We need to define who is on the advisory board then they would give us suggestions according to their connections. Review that in the context of the data so that we have a good representative sample. Tammy: This would also help us identify the areas that we need to go outside of MI to find the right people to talk to. Cindee: We want to maximize personal networks and relations. Tammy: What I can do to help this process is to take this list and compare it to MI and mid-MI. Lisa: We have a lot of information to start making the list. Jon: Something that would be useful when we start to tinker with curriculum would be to know a time history, like are there some things here that are going up for the last X years? Tammy: Are you taking about specific technologies? We don't have that. ONet reviews occupations on rotating ten year cycles. I don't have the exact dates for all these. We don't have the old data because ONet overrides the data on the website. Mark: But that's the sort of things that we would be doing in the interviews, we would ask where do you see the industry going? Jeannine: This calls into question the functionality and usefulness of the federally generated labor market occupation data. We are talking about pushing on educational institutions to be more responsive to the labor market and make sure that the curriculum aligns and there really is a question on the effectiveness of working with data. Are there other groups for example associations that are collecting engineering-related labor market information? We should try to look at that. Daina: Probably not ABET more likely ASEE (American Society for Eng Education) and may be the individual professional societies (IEEE, AIChE, ASCE, etc) *To do: Daina and Jon will look at these data.* Jeannine: An important part of this project is to develop a process and part of the process is the data and the information that is available to make decisions. Lisa: We want to have societies and association members in our advisory board because we want them and their resources as close as we can. Tammy: Societies and associations have important members that have good networks and they can also represent the needs of multiple constituents. Lisa: They are keeping tabs on the trends in their fields; in many cases they have training and educational programs around that. Daina: I agree. Agenda: Finalize the advisory board discussion* Look at advisory board candidates excel spread sheet (CPACE contact Management Spreadsheet) Cindee: Lisa and I updated the list adding various names we also try to organize the information; on the second column we added some categories like ab=advisory board etc. we added a discipline column to make sure that we are checking the representation of the disciplines. The other column added was to keep track of the contact approach. We also added the information about where do MSU graduates go, this is in parenthesis in the company column. Lisa: The number in parenthesis represents the number of MSU graduates hired in this company. We also have a list that ranks the businesses that hire MSU graduates and in what disciplines. Mark: Are we going to get comparable data from LCC? To the degree that our graduates are not representative we want to be careful not to overweight where our graduates and have a good general representation. Lisa: In terms of the contacts these are my contacts, people that I personally can call they may not necessarily be the right person for the advisory board but they will direct us to the right person. We need to decide who we want to invite for the advisory board and identify what contact to use to get to that particular person. Mark: We need to determine the broad range of categories we are trying to constitute our advisory board. Jeannine: How many disciplines are we taking about? Mark: If we look at instructional programs there is no point in addressing disciplines that are not part of an instructional program when we are revising the curriculum that's what we are going to be looking at. In terms of the advisory board we should not exclude any of the engineering disciplines. Daina: I thought we decided ME, ChE, CE, EE Jon: Tom indicated that the numbers for bio-system are smaller than the rest of the college but when it comes to the table in discussing the curricula every department has its own vote, so inviting someone from bio-systems to the advisory board is a good idea. Daina: Bio-systems only in that their computing needs are different. Jeannine: In general we want to have at least a representative from the major association for these disciplines a couple of businesses from each of the disciplines. Mark: Lets say that we take one form each major professional society that's five, and one from each of the business that's other five. And two more from other category. _There seems to be confusion in the use of the terms associations and professional societies._ Jeannine: I don't think 12 people in the advisory board are sufficient. Jon: We are covering ABET with one person and that may not cover well all the disciplines but it takes care of the interests of ...Its critical that there are academic representatives outside of MSU and LCC. Jeannine: It comes back to the purpose of the advisory board. Jon: One of the purposes of the advisory board is to get academics and industry at the same table from the onset of the process. Jeannine: We want to have a mix of academics, professional society representation and businesses. Jon: That's fine but, what constitutes the professional society? Are we going to try to cover every professional society? Mark: No we can't. Jeannine: Does ABET cover the five disciplines that we have? Daina: Abet is made up of 28 professional societies. Jon: What ABET brings to the table is a history of process of curricular change. Jeannine: When we talk about of doing targeted occupational related surveys, what level of professional society input do we need? Is ABET able to provide that? Jon: I don't think they need to be involved in the surveys. It is our employers in the region we designated that's our target. Jeannine: Depending on the nature of the survey we can take two routes, we can survey the businesses and the firms, industry sector site and we could go the professional society route. Daina: ABET person will represent their own discipline instinctively. Where they work matter depending on what you are asking. Mark: One of the functions of the advisory board from the onset is to help getting our sample and getting the contacts in the various companies we are dealing with. They also need to have a view of the bigger picture. For that reason professional society and association people are good candidates as they are inclined to think beyond the scope of their own companies. Lisa: For example, the Society of manufacturing engineering, they have half a million members, they develop curriculum, they develop programs around engineering, they are multidisciplinary, a group like this is a good candidate because they have a lot of resources, a broad view of engineering if we can identify groups like that. Lisa showed us the spread sheets that she generated: Lisa: This is the analysis that shows who the largest MSU graduates employers are and in what disciplines they are employing. The other form: is an example of how we might want to go from the big list of candidates in the different disciplines and the different sectors to choosing more specific members for the advisory board based on their discipline and the areas that they represent. CIV: MDOT/G, GRANGER/B ME: TARDEC/G, GM/B EE: Hemloch/B Small Times/A CHE: Dow/B CPE: Konnech/B, Techsmith/B Other: Kellog/B (BSE), SME/A (multi) ME: TARDEC because is military and can give as a connection to cutting edge technologies that the military are using. EE: Hemloch they work with semiconductors, they are growing exponentially, they are in MI and working around alternative energy. Small Times are dealing with nanotechnology. This list is an example of how we can think about going from the big list to a more targeted list for members to the advisory board based on their discipline and the areas that they represent. We might not need to have all the candidates now but bring people as we go along. Daina; Lisa has a straightforward plan. Mark: I agree that this is a straightforward plan I think that we want to constitute an advisory board intact from the beginning. I am still trying to decide between industrial representation and professional association perspective Konnech in my mind is perhaps someone with a parochial view. Jeannine: We have four categories business, government professional associations/society and academics. I think we should be drawing from those categories to populate the list. Lisa, could we start taking the set of contacts that we have and create a representation for each of the disciplines like you have started to do and if we can get a suggested list of names. Mark: It does not have to be perfect the idea is that they can make suggestions; we do need to move it along and hopefully have a list for the beginning of the year. Lisa: For the next meeting we could come up with five candidates from business, five academics, and five associations; we can see where there is overlap and this will point us to obvious candidates also going through the process of explaining why we picked a particular candidate we can have a consensus. We don't have to be limited to the list that we have if there are other candidates. We need to agree on a composition and start filling the blanks. At the next meeting we need to decide what the list is. Daina: Might we have both MSU and non-MSU faculty? We have to be careful about numbers. Jeannine: We need MSU and LCC folks input as to whom from each place and also from outside based on your networks. Jon: I don't think on the academic side we are dividing the area in the right way. For example we said that there should be a civil eng but civil eng are all over the board there is environmental, highways, and structures so which one? We should initially focus around real topics that then have to cover every topic like the people that are doing environmental eng are very close to chemical eng, they talk the same language. Jeannine: Jon are you saying that there are people within the department that have a disciplinary perspective, but there are also people that are working across disciplines or interdisciplinary? Jon: Not working across, what they do in their academic department, their outlook in the kind of computational tools because that's what we are interested in, for example the structures people in civil (they build buildings and bridges) their outlook is very similar to mechanical eng and their computational needs are very similar that is the kind of split that would get us further on the academic side. Mark: Again this points out to the kind of perspective that a person in the advisory board needs to have and it also applies to academics, for example if they are sitting in the advisory board of a professional society they are more likely to have a broader perspective. Daina: Our advisory board won't be giving the input for the surveying just guiding our process, right? They themselves won't be surveyed. Mark: No they won't be surveyed. They would help us with the design. For next meeting we want the list of potential candidates. Jeannine: For the next meeting we need to work on a proposed schedule for the advisory board meetings and start outlining the purpose for those meeting (CSW could prepare a draft). We need to talk more about some of the ideas in terms of data collection survey and additional methods that we plan to use. Mark: Come up with some list of things to propose to the advisory board. We don't want the advisory board to be generative we want them to be advisory. Jeannine: In terms of once we have identified who we want to invite how we reach them. Tom's letter is ready everyone agreed on the last version. {}Summary and key points Review additional data/information from Gary and Tammy and push further on the data collection/sampling strategy. - There is a question about the functionality and usefulness of the federally generated labor market occupation data. If there are other data sources for example professional associations collecting engineering-related labor market information, we should try to look at that data. - An important part of this project is to develop a process and part of the process is the data and the information that is available to make decisions.Finalize the advisory board discussion. - One of the functions of the advisory board from the onset is to help us get our sample and get the contacts in the various companies we are dealing with. They also need to have a view of the bigger picture. For this reason professional society and association people are good candidates as they are inclined to think beyond the scope of their own companies. - One of the purposes of the advisory board is to get academics and industry at the same table from the onset of the process.
Action items: CSW: - Using the set of contacts to create a representation for each of the disciplines and get a suggested list of names. MSU/LCC: - For the next meeting bring a list of five potential candidates for the advisory board from each of the sectors business, academia, and professional associations. - Jon and Daina will look into professional societies that are collecting engineering-related labor market information Logistics: Next meeting: Monday January 19, 2008 Time: 3:30 p.m. - 5:30 p.m. Location: Michigan State University, East Lansing MI |
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